Author Topic: Sliding dovetails  (Read 8972 times)

Jeff L Headley

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Sliding dovetails
« on: December 18, 2013, 09:27:15 PM »
Sliding dovetails are also needed for leg to post joinery for table construction. http://www.sapfm.org/forum/index.php?board=20.0

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2014, 05:07:10 PM »
Pedestal dining table posts support an incredible amount of weight at the intersection between the legs and the post. You do not want a "Dog Gone It". In this situation a tapered dovetail might come back to bite you in the butt. I would recommend a straight (parallel shouldered) dovetail up into the post. I also recommend spiders.

ttalma

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2014, 08:44:32 AM »
What size is that blank? 16/4 or 20/4? How will you remove the burn marks from the TS, they look deep? The sides all look nice and even, do you leave a little extra for cleanup?
There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't.

Peter Storey Pentz

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2014, 01:03:38 PM »
  Jeff,

I am partial to spiders, too.  But I am not very fond of black widows.   PSP

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 07:52:12 PM »
The posts are from 24/4  (2- 12/4 glued up which no dovetailed joint intersects a post glue joint) turned down to 22/4. A Queen Anne post should be light.
I like spiders! They should be dark so they do not get seen. They also are like Jayne Mansfield's Wonderbra. They help support and separate.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 08:00:56 PM by Jeff L Headley »

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 06:43:41 PM »
Here is the post with the saw marks removed.

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 10:30:01 PM »
If you want to be critical all sliding dovetails are tapered but in this situation they should be as parallel as possible. A perfect fit no matter what the situation is needed leaving room for glue. Surface to surface contact is required.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 10:39:19 PM by Jeff L Headley »

John Cashman

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 11:55:45 PM »
I notice you cut the post as an octagon on the table saw. I assume this was to make the turning easier?

I like to make my posts first as hexagons. That makes it easier to make the female part of the sliding dovetail on a router table. Just cut every other side on the flat. You can't do this with an octagon.

Mo Yarborough

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 06:11:42 PM »
Ok guys, I thought you were supposed to make this by hand and mallet and chisel!  That's why I joined this
group of specialists, to learn the ways of the Old Masters!  HaHa  just kidding!
Be the best you can be, for no one knows what tomorrow brings!

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 07:59:17 PM »
Mo, True!! as we read this from our devices. I do agree. But how were your "modern post 1820's" mallets and chisels made? Do you use modern lighting.  We could spend hours on what in today's society denotes "Handmade". I think that it should come down to Period joinery and how it fits. I try to think that modern machinery are todays aprententises prepareing lumber. The only problem is that they do not get any smarter
John, I have repaired many pedestal tables. Period, modern, and in between. Our method works. I have angled shoulder which can not be made easily from a six sided post. Angled shoulders allow your tails to be set further apart. More meat between each dovetail with spiders added means hopefully in 150 years we will not be bothered by returned products.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 09:04:09 PM by Jeff L Headley »

Jack Plane

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2014, 08:53:47 PM »
I lay out dovetail sockets on the end of a column with a compass irrespective of the column's shape, though I usually plane the column octagonal simply for ease of holding it in the vise – http://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/image-galleries/making-a-reading-table-gallery/
Regards, Jack.

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2014, 09:07:30 PM »
97% is Geometry

Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2014, 09:26:03 PM »
Angled dovetail shoulders should be easily cut throughout many periods.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 09:30:19 PM by Jeff L Headley »

Mo Yarborough

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2014, 11:49:29 PM »
Jeff, I love your work!  The issue about the "handmade" joinery comes from a few discussions I have had with  Executive Board Members regarding new membership.  I asked the question regarding new members who made things using new technology, and the response was deep in the gray area.  Seems like the methods that are wanted are in the true form of handmade.  I really don't care one way or the other....I suspect that if electric machines were avalible in 1760, the Masters would have used them! 
Mo
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Jeff L Headley

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Re: Sliding dovetails
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2014, 08:10:10 PM »
Mo, I am a little confused by your new technology comment. I am building American period furniture today, not in the original period as are you. I am using the same joints as are you. Most hand cut but all hand fit!. I am not a hobbyist. I do use machines to speed up the process. Nothing is sacrificed by my clumsy machines. There are French designs for reciprocating saw blades in the early 1700's which had 5 blades working in unison for cutting logs. Would that not have been new technology. Nails! There is a great place to start with new technology. I respect your opinion. How do you acquire your lumber. No modern technology there?  
I am in the business of reproducing American period furniture. We are a two man shop. I am glad that you have a clientele that will support your method of complete hand work. I am envious that you have the time to do everything by hand. I guess I must not have the right clientele.  Most of my customers will not support a completely hand made piece. The table currently in discussion the lumber was sawn off of my clients property. I have had it drying in our shed for over 15 years. I did use an electric motor to run my 1914 Oliver lathe that we had rebuilt. With all that iron a treadle did not seem feasible. I did use a table saw to cut the corners off of each edge of the cherry posts. I did just turn the poplar sample without cutting the corners off with the table saw, I hope that counts. The top is hand planed then scraped with highly figured cherry. As an original member I did not realize that this forum was limited to one way of doing things. You have touched a nerve. Please do not say that any of my joinery is inferior because of the assistance of modern technology. This is a great discussion and I appreciate your opinion.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 09:28:23 PM by Jeff L Headley »