Poll: What is your philosophy on mahogany?

[Mark Arnold]

Five years ago, I was reluctant to pay $10/bd. ft for some highly figured mahogany. Today, $10 seems to be the going rate for run-of-the-mill figure. All indications are that prices will continue to increase as has been noted here on the forum. What plans or provisions -if any-have you made for the impending shortage of genuine mahogany?

You must be logged in to have the option to vote. We'll reveal the results of the poll next week.

[maderas]

Here is my 2 cents worth of info on one of my favourite topics

My background in Mahogany: I have been involved in buying mahogany for about 5 years. I bought 3 containers of cuban mahogany from Cuba in 2003, the lumber came from storm damaged trees from Hurricane Michelle (legal for me, I am Canadian). Apparently this was the first legal shipment to leave Cuba since 1959. Cuban mahogany exports were banned in 1947, although some small amount was exported after that. I was contacted later that year from someone in Haiti who had a mahogany plantation, I later made a deal to buy into the company and have started importing mahogany from there. Last year I supplied the White House with 100 year old re-claimed cuban mahogany (from Haiti) for repairs to the Eisenhower Office. I have also purchased mahogany from Fiji and have bought others species from many other South American countries. I currently deal only in plantation grown products, re-claimed or some sort of under-utilized species that is from a sustainable forest.

best book ever on mahogany, Mahogany of Tropical America by F. Bruce Lamb. Very rare, if you want to learn about mahogany, find this book and buy it.

fact #1. mahogany cut in a closed forest will not grow back unless approx 1 acre is cleared to allow sunlight to get at the seedlings. Mahogany is not tolerant of shade.

fact #2. No one will pay more for plantation mahogany, they want to pay less. There is a misconception that plantation grown lumbe ris inferior. Mahogany is a product of its environment. Most mahogany from the Pacific area is lighter in density than from other areas. As well, the plantations there were very poorly maintained and there are excessive pin knots. Since the mahogany we have in Haiti grows in cuban mahogany territory, the wood is a virtual equal to cuban mahogany in density and figure. However, we do not have the great size of 100 to 200 year old trees, and we also get more pin knots (although the butt log will have very few, if any) than something that is older and grew in a big forest. Not all forest grown mahogany is great, not all plantation mahogany is inferior. Density is the ultimate determiner of the quality of the mahogany and how it will age and last. Use that as your guide when you buy mahogany

fact #3 the mahogany export business is extremely corrupt. Nicaragua just placed a 10 year moritorium on mahogany exports, although some can leave if value added is done in Nicaragua. It is a common practice in most countries for exporters to get a permit for 100 cubic meters ( 42,000 bd ft) and export 200 cubic meters, or something similar. Paperwork all shows the lower amount, seller and buyer have an "understanding" as to how it works. This also is a major tax evasion by the exporter, which probably plays a great role in their deception. That was one of the major reasons Nicaragua stopped the exports, and one of the big reasons behind the lawsuit filed in the US by environmental groups to stop Peruvian mahogany from being exported to the US. Greenpeace played a major role in shutting down Brazilian mahogany exports, by playing up the environmental damage and even murders of native protesters. Most mahogany exports and imports are controlled by big companies with a lot of money, ethics vs profits, use your own judgement there.

fact #4. Mahogany will only get rarer and more expensive. Mahogany was placed in a more restricted category by CITES in November 2003. Exporters now have to provide scientific evidence that they are not damaging the long term survival of the species with their harvesting practices. This has not eliminated the corruption, but has restricted it to lower amounts. Imports to the US are down about 75% since the early 90's, hence the rise in price. There is some talk in both Peru and Bolivia about banning mahogany lumber exports. I heard the same talk in Nicaragua for 2 or 3 years, then it happened. Peru supplies about half of the mahogany that enters the US right now.

fact #5. If more plantations are not started and properly financed and maintained, our children and grand children will not have many opportunites to use the great wood. I am trying to start more plantations, but as one man I can only do so much. There are very viable ways of doing this, but only with a long term approach. Short term, get rich quick schemes in plantation lumber are scams. Properly planned and maintained plantations can provide great lumber for people who appreciate it, and a reasonable long term profit for those who invest in the right ones. My plantation in Haiti was started 50 years ago, on 60 acres, we now have 4000 trees, 1000 of them 20" diameter and greater, 40 to 60 ft to the crotch. More plantations of valuable hardwoods would also help reduce de-forestation and help reduce greenhouse gases. We cannot continue to use the same practices as we have for the last 500 years, we have eliminated the large cuban mahogany trees that will never grow to that size again, and the supply of large, high quality honduras mahogany is shrinking faster than it is being replaced.

I really hope that many others will also try and get involved in starting more mahogany (and other types) plantations. Some will fail, some will be scams, but some will succeed and supply future generations of fine furniture builders. There are no easy solutions to the mahogany problem, and if everyone does nothing, nothing will happen.
sorry for being long winded, imagine how my wife feels hearing me talk about mahogany. Hopefully, you will be more interested.

[Mark Arnold]

Marv,

Thanks for your insightful response. My intent in posting this poll was to supplement, not divert the conversation from the 'Mahogany question' topic (http://sapfm.org/forum/index.php?topic=102.0) As a grower, harvester and importer of plantation lumber, you have a view of the big picture that most of us who buy a hundred bf now and then don't see.

I do see more furniture makers touting the fact that they use plantation grown mahogany in their work. It is unclear if the maker's themselves have bought into responsible forestry practices or if their decision is driven by their environmentally-conscious clientele or simply by what is available when they go to buy lumber. While we all want to pay less for our wood, common sense should tell us that plantation grown lumber will always be more expensive than clear-cut. We expect to pay more for organic produce, not less. Why should this be any different?

I would be interested to know if you are aware of any lesser-known exotics which have the density and carving characteristics of genuine mahogany.

[maderas]

regarding lesser known species as an alternative for genuine mahogany

there is a species from Ecuador and other areas with a botanical name of guarea. I am not sure of how many sub species there are, but I have seen samples that look like mahogany and have a similar tight grain. I have also seen samples that don't look too appealing, not sure if they are different species or just a variation of the same species. This species is related to mahogany. I have not had enough of it to build something with it and see how it works, or if the colour changes with exposure to sunlight, etc.

I saw some samples of different woods once from Ivory Coast. There was one that looked identical to genuine mahogany, colour, grain pattern, tight grain, everything. Problem was they did not know the botanical name, but it was noy khaya (african mahogany). I had no chance to test it what the characteristics were. That person drifted away after I graded his african mahogany and found it had at least 4 different species in it.

carapa guinesses (andiroba, royal mahogany) is used as a mahogany substitute, but it is not nearly as stable, although it has similar grain patterns. I have also found a wide range of density and properties with this species.

one of the best alternatives might be walnut. Except for the colour, walnut is similar to mahogany in working characteristics, is very stable, strong and carves well, and has great crotch figure. Problem there is that good walnut is also getting harder to find, but it is much cheaper.

maybe someone else has experience with another wood as an alternative???

[Mark Arnold]

Today is the last day to cast your vote in our poll.

When you log- in you will be given the option of voting for the statement that best describes your opinion.

[Mark Arnold]

Do the results of our poll surprise anyone?

Most respondants are willing to pay more as the price of genuine mahogany rises but what will you do when it is $20/ bf? or no longer available? How much is your decision driven by the amount that you use?

Those willing to pay more for mahogany that passes CITES II standards were a close second. Will you ask about the origin of the next mahogany you purchase? Are you willing to invest in a mahogany futures market? Is anyone stockpiling?

If you use only domestics, is yours an eco-decision or do you harvest your own lumber or just prefer buying (North) American?

[dkeller_nc]

There's one choice that might've received a fair number of votes (that wasn't in the polls):

"I'll pay whatever the lumberyard asks because there is no acceptable substitute for high-style 18th century reproductions"

I'm assuming this will be a marketing edge in the years to come - those that have a large stockpile will attract those customers that want an "authentic" reproduction of a newport block and shell desk, philadelphia piecrust tea table, etc... because most originals were simply not made of anything else other than S.A. mahogany.

It might not be a question of whether we're willing to pay $20 a b.f., it might be a question of whether a customer will be willing to pay the large premium.  For those of us that are hobbyists, we may have to be satisfied with "close enough" reproductions made of a plausible local species...

[maderas]

Good news on mahogany pricing
I don't think mahogany will increase as much in the near future as it has in the last 3 years. The big recent increase is because of the tighter CITES regulations on mahogany that started in Nov 2003. Mahogany imports are down 75% in the US over the past 15 years. Prices will still increase, but I think the rise will be much slower. The quality will decrease because of a smaller supply on both ends, and the big 30 and 40 inch wide boards will be scarce.
One caveat on that though. If Peru and Bolovia decide to shut down mahogany lumber exports like Nicaragua just did in order to force value added in their countries, mahogany will have another big jump. There is talk in both countries about doing that. I heard the rumors for 2 years in Nicaragua, then it happened there. At that point, it will probably be the same price as teak. But why is teak so much more than mahogany? Teak from Burma comes from huge plantations that have been going for 160 years, is not endangered and mahogany is better looking, easier to use and almost as durable outside. Mahogany should be the same price as teak, maybe more, we have just been spoiled.

[Jeff L Headley]

This might be an interesting topic to revisit.

[Jeff L Headley]

Walnut works well as a subsitute for mahogany today.