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The Society of American Period Furniture Makers  |  Furniture Forms  |  Seating Furniture & Beds  |  Topic: Late 1600s Early 1700s trundel bed? « previous next »
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Author Topic: Late 1600s Early 1700s trundel bed?  (Read 5609 times)
hellmutt
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« on: January 26, 2013, 03:55:21 PM »

I want (need) to built a single bed for a small room. I would like to build a trundle bed to be able to fit a few people if needed however I do not want it to take up most of the room on a daily basis.
I have researched available mattress sizes and found out that singles come in 75" and 80" lengths; I believe that I can build a bed with a trundle using those modern standards.
My problem is that I  have not been able to find any pictures of a bed from the era that I like (William and Mary).
I have been able to find info on beds of the era however they are not of beds that might be considered to be for the "common" people or for the "kids" room.
I believe I can build something based on my sense of the period however I would like to start from a known example.
Any Ideas?
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John McAlister
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 04:15:02 PM »

Do I understand correctly that you want to build a Wm&Mary style bed, suitable for a kids room and a trundle bed to go under it?
I believe any Wm&Mary style bed would be perhaps too formal to go in a kids room. Maybe not. Would like to see other's ideas.
John McAlister
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Textile mfg, 30 yrs. Owner travel agency 10 yrs.
Hobbies other than furniture making include fishing, hunting and tennis. Flew P 51's WWII, 8th Air Force, Europe.
Antiquity Period Designs, Ltd.
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2013, 05:03:50 PM »

I have found it difficult to find examples of W&M beds. Does anyone have photos of these beds? Both tall post and low/medium height posts.

Dennis Bork
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Professional period furniture maker since 1985.  Received a B.S. degree in physics then apprenticed and worked as a wood patternmaker for 12 years.
John McAlister
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Period furniture maker as hobby, 40 yrs.


« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2013, 06:58:46 PM »

Dennis: I Googled: "Wm&Mary style beds" and was directed to several sites. I tried several of them and found photographs labeled Wm&Mary style beds. All of them were quite ponderous and unattractive (ugly as homemade sin).  I'm no expert on antiques by any means and maybe some of these I looked at are not accurately labeled.
John McAlister
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Textile mfg, 30 yrs. Owner travel agency 10 yrs.
Hobbies other than furniture making include fishing, hunting and tennis. Flew P 51's WWII, 8th Air Force, Europe.
hellmutt
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2013, 07:02:46 PM »

John, Yes I want to build something similar to what we would now call a bed for a kids room; however I intend on keeping a small writing table in the same room. The trundle would be in case I have someone stop over who might need more than a "single".
I do understand that some W&M furniture is a bit more "fancy" however some of it appears more toward the "pilgrim" era which is the portion of the era that I lean toward.

Dennis, Yes I have also found it difficult to find any photos of beds of the era that might be mid to low post type that I want to build. It appears that only the "fancy" or "high class" exambles are the ones that survived and got photographed.

I am thinking that the posts would be 3-4 feet tall at the head board and that the mattress would be 29+/- inches off the ground leaving me about 20 inches under the rail to put a short frame with mattress for the trundle.

At this point I am thinking that I just need a rough idea of the size/shape of the posts and what the headboard/footboard might look like.

Thanks, Mike   
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Jeff L Headley
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 08:07:52 PM »

Mike, You will need to consider modern mattress sizes. Trundel beds fit underneath the bed above. Both will in most aspects need to fit a modern mattress for today's situations. Standard twins are 74"- 75" in length. Please keep this in mind while designing your trundle. Keep your trundle so it fits your mattress as close as possible. Add turned wheels at bottom of trundle posts to aid in pulling out. All can be designed to be taken apart. Horton brasses can cover your bed bolt needs. We have tricks to cover your construction needs!
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hellmutt
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 08:52:27 PM »

Thanks Jeff, My research shows that modern single size mattresses come in standard (75") and long (80"), this should give me a little room to make this work. I have already made wooden wheels on the trundle a part of the plan. I need to see if I can buy the mattresses without the box springs..................why waste money on something that will not work with the overall design?

Without benefit of photos of actual examples I may draw up some ideas and post for comments to see if folks think I'm on the right track. My thoughts right now are that it should be maple, ash or white oak and that the posts should be 3-3.5" wide and 3-4 feet tall, with the rails also matching the post widths.  The width of the bed will be determined by the standard width of the mattresses (which I don't have at the top of my head).

Very unsure of post shapes and headboard shape along with not being sure if there should be a foot board or not. I am also thinking about cutting a groove around the rails and weaving rope to make it look like a rope bed which would seem appropriate for the period.


Mike
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Jack Plane
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 09:02:59 PM »

I wasn't sure what was being discussed until John mentioned a bed under a bed. In Britain such a bed is called a 'truckle' bed. This video may be of interest, with a truckle bed making a cameo appearance at about the nine minute mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RoNuv8C-gI
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Regards, Jack.
Peter Storey Pentz
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 09:33:30 PM »

Mike,

In Wallace Nutting's "Furniture of the Pilgrim Century" there is a picture of a low-post bed with a trundle that is partially rolled out.  Interestingly, it rolls out the front, between the front posts.  The photo is very fuzzy in the book, and it probably would not scan well.  The head board appears to be a plain board with two more or less semi-circular high spots (for two pillows ?).  There is no footboard.  Footboards do not appear until the second quarter of the 19th Century.  Because the photo is so fuzzy, I can fake (as in "Hum a few bars and I'll fake it."  Jack) a sketch of the posts on both beds.  It is a photo of a room in the Saugus Iron Works House.  Perhaps another member can see and sketch it better than I can.  PSP
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hellmutt
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 11:42:59 PM »

Jack, thanks for the video (I loved it), the "truckle" is what I'm talking about however the video appears to be based about 100 years earlier than the idea and I am looking for. A single bed with a "truckle" with short posts is what I am trying to find or replicate..............or maybe create.

Peter, Thanks for the info, I have the book by Nutting (I call it the bible) on the bench beside me and have made about five pieces based on the pictures in that book. I will look through it again in the morning......however I think I know which one you are talking about.

Thanks all, Good night

Mike

 
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millcrek
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 09:06:03 AM »

Hellmut, I think single sized beds for the common people were very rare, if they existed at all, prior to the late 18th century. If you image search "antique rope bed" there are a large number from the federal period, but very little before that.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=serp&gs_mss=sheridan+rop&pq=sheridan+period&cp=17&gs_id=171&xhr=t&q=sheridan+rope+bed&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41524429,d.aWc&biw=1366&bih=675&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ITIFUezeEYbJyAGT0oCQDA#um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=antique++rope+bed&oq=antique++rope+bed&gs_l=img.12..0i24l5.28897.28897.2.32867.1.1.0.0.0.0.136.136.0j1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.wz-Eaaj9lsA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41524429,d.aWc&fp=733000567b913fe5&biw=1366&bih=675
The William and Mary equivalent might be the day bed or long chair.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=serp&gs_mss=sheridan+rop&pq=sheridan+period&cp=17&gs_id=171&xhr=t&q=sheridan+rope+bed&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41524429,d.aWc&biw=1366&bih=675&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ITIFUezeEYbJyAGT0oCQDA#um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=william+and+mary+day+bed&oq=william+and+mary+day+bed&gs_l=img.12...92130.100881.12.103382.16.16.0.0.0.0.140.1811.4j12.16.0...0.0...1c.1.sH2_h2t8cmA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41524429,d.aWc&fp=733000567b913fe5&biw=1366&bih=675
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 09:07:53 AM by millcrek » Logged
jim vojcek
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 06:46:03 PM »

In the chicago area where I live, one can get any size matterss.  Look for a small company. 

Jim Vojcek
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pampine
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2013, 11:28:50 AM »

If you want to give your guests a real treat, why not use a futon? Granted, they're stiffer and higher than a plain old mattress, but they're so much more comfortable.

Pam
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hellmutt
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2013, 06:41:29 PM »

Milkrek, Thanks for the links they should help with ideas.

Jim, I do know that custom matresses can be found, however I thought I would just build to a standard size in order to save money (on bedding too); if I found an old bed or a plan of an original size and needed a mattress to fit I would consider that.

Pampine, I'm afraid that I have never seen a futon that appears to be anything close to the style of furniture that I like and enjoy building.

It appears that I may be trying to build something that may not have existed..........................no reason to settle for something I don't want if I can design something using the same style and use roughly the same dimensions that might have existed............and make it work with available items.

Thanks all I will keep you up to date on this.
Mike
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pampine
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 02:01:09 PM »

Hmmm, so far as I know, futons looks just like thick mattresses, covered in white cotton cloth. Granted it's not ticking, one can be thankful for small things. Besides, the mattress never shows unless you're changing sheets. Not that I don't respect your preferences.

Guess I'm really out of step with the period.

Pam
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