stripping shellac

[HSteier]

I have a piecrust tea table base that has suffered a finishing/staining disaster of my own making. My only option is to strip and refinish. The baseand legs have a fair amount of carving. Should I use regular stripper? Would a heat gun soften the shellac if used before stripper? I have tried alcohol and steel wool but don't seem to be making much progress.

Help!!!!!

Howard Steier

[ttalma]

Howard I had to remove some shellac on a piece I was working on, it was an applied turning with crisp turnings, not carved. The piece was from around 1880 so I don't know if that makes the shellac different or not, I'd guess not though, it's all bug spit.

I soaked a cotton rag with rubbing alcohol, wrapped the turning with the rag, and then covered the whole lot with saran wrap and tapped the edges down with blue tape. I then left it for 3 or 4 hours. Then I removed the whole lot, and wiped down with a clean rag soaked in alcohol. I repeated the process 3 times, but on the second time there was only a little of the shellac, and by the 3rd it was gone.

I did this once a day with a few days in between each time, which resulted in the non-removed shellac re-hardening. I suspect if I were able to do it in one day i would have only needed 2 applications.

[R Bohn]

 Hi Howard
  If I could only say things never go wrong in my shop!!    Sure does change the learning curve though.   I don't think I would use a heat gun. Had a client once that started his house on fire 3 times with a heat gun.
3rd time I took his gun away.
I can't give you a brand because the one I use [Bix] is no longer made.  The Bar Corp. bought them out and discontinued the line.  It has / had a water wash, most have a solvent wash.
 The trick is to let the stripper do the work.  Paint a semi-paste  on the area and if it starts to dry, paint more on.  Should not take long for shellac.  When its ready to remove, you will be able to move the finish with your brush. If you need to remove to color also, let it work a little longer. If you used a dye, the color maybe difficult to remove. The can will tell you what solvent to wash with.  Use a putty knife on flat surfaces and stiff brush on the carvings. Dipping the brush into the solvent to scrub the residue away. Tough finishes may require a soft brass brush. If the stripper did its work, the residue will come off easy, if not, you didn't let the stripper do its work.  Shellac should come off much easier than a turn of the century varnish.
  I can't say enough how dangerous this can be!!!!  Methylene  Chloride is bad stuff!!! I have a friend that has burns on his arms from this stuff.  The fumes stay near the floor, make sure there are no pilot lights or flames. Gloves, goggles, mask[Not dust filter !!!] are required!!!!!!!  I have a steel tray I do this in. 
  The safer the stripper brand,[ not to say any are really safe] the slower it works.    If you have any questions, ask!!   This is too dangerous to guess about.           
   Good luck     Randy

[Antiquity]

Howard,

I used an indoor stripper that requires no gloves (I did wear some) and has a pleasant citrus odor.  The bottom (first) coat was shellac and it came off but not all the water base dye came out.  I covered the wet areas with sheets of plastic to avoid evaporation. I had to do it several times but that is probably because the tops coats were tung oil.

Dennis Bork

[ChuckH]

Methylene Chloride is actually non-flamable, but the stuff has an uncanny way of finding the smallest patch of exposed skin, so cover up as best as you can when using it.  Googles and the proper gloves and good ventilation are a must.  It also neutralizes instantly with water so keep a wet rag handy.
A couple of years ago I stripped an entire Empire chest with nothing but alcohol and many 0000# steel wool pads.  I had few problems, but stripping by any means requires patience and elbow grease.

Definitely not a heat gun.

-Chuck

[HSteier]

Thanks to all.
I'll start with alcohol wraps, if not successful I'll move on to stripper.
I hope this will teach me to be MORE PATIENT when I finish my projects. Hurrying just costs more time in the end. Staring at the project didn't make the finish dry any faster.

Howard Steier

[ttalma]

I grew up on a farm and whenever I tried to cut corners on a repair my dad would always say "If you can't find time to do it right the first time, how wil you find time to do it again?". I have to say that to myself alot sometimes.

[Jeff L Headley]

Howard, What might be the finishing /staining disaster which occurred. There are many ways around disasters which may not require a complete refinish. I have been involved with a few lifetimes of finishing mishaps. Like you would be so lucky but it's worth asking.

[HSteier]

I used Gene Landon's technique. I sealed with a light coat of shellac, then used water based solution of walnut husk dye, then several coats of shellac. This came out very blotched. I tried to fix it by using dye in the subsequent coats of shellac, but the blotching just got worse and worse. It looked awful
I have been working to get it all off with alcohol but it's going to be a long slow process.

Howard Steier

[albreed]

Howard- I think the best way to strip shellac is to cover the surface with a 1/2" layer of sawdust, soak with alcohol, cover with plastic for a while, then use the sawdust as an abrasive to scrub off the finish. Sawdust will absorb old finish and not damage the wood. Clean up with rag and/or steel wool and alcohol- Al

[Jeff L Headley]

I don't have much to ad to Al's posting other than courser shavings are easier to get out of more detailed areas if carvings are involved. Wood shavings are always a better abrasive then steel wool or sand paper with many solvents.
I do have a question about adding a water born coloring agent over a shellacked sub surface. A water based stain over a shellac surface doesn't mix well. I have found a better result by switching the dye first then the shellac with shading to blend. A finish is a very personal thing. My way is right your way is wrong so there!!!!?. With that said my father always said you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear with your finish.

[HSteier]

Thanks again gentleman. I'm making slow (but steady) progress. Thanks for the suggestion about sawdust. I'll try it tonight.

Howard Steier

[CBWW]

Finishing mistakes suck.  I'll add my 2 cents on the problem.  So if you remove the shellac, you will still likely have blotching.  Hopefully not but it still might be there.  So, how did it get there?  If there are areas that were not sanded to equal grit- may cause blotching.  Or, it may be from the shellac coat.  I very often use shellac under water stains.  BUT, the cut has to be thin.  The shellac wash coat can inhibit the color soaking into the end grain.  Many times I have put on a thin coat of shellac, then sand the non end grain areas.  If the coat is to thick in areas you will inhibit the color from penetrating.  So the alcohol will remove the shellac but I dont know how much of the color will be pulled out..  You may have to resort to bleach and or a stronger stripper(meth chloride)  With the tripod table base- being mostly alot of end grain, I probably would have started coloring w/ alcohol stains.  If i needed to use water stains, they would have been cut pretty heavy to slowly build the color. 

Pete
www.cherrybrookwoodworks.com
     

[HSteier]

Pete is right. The shellac is off but all the color isn't. Nevertheless it will look reasonable. It's looking like a refinished antique. It's for my sister's Manhattan penthouse apt. so it will fit right in.

Howard Steier

[CBWW]

Bleach it.  Then re-build the color. 

Pete

www.cherrybrookwoodworks.com