Piston Fit Drawers

[kenta]

This is my first post as I typically only read online forums.   

I am have been challenged by a woodworking teacher to make piston fit drawers in my period reproductions.  I have been using less than 1/16 clearance on each side of a large carcase drawer.  My recent instructor who does not make period furniture said this was sloppy.  He recommended a plain to fit for the drawer width as expansion will not change this diminsion.  Does anyone do this?

Kent

[John McAlister]

Kenta,  I'm an amateur and certainly not an expert on real period pieces but striving for piston fit drawers seems, to me, a waste of time. A well fitted drawer, sure. One that opens and closes easily, sure. A piston fit. Why? Less than 1/16" clearance on the sides is not "sloppy"  as long as the drawer works easily.

Your instructor reccommends a "plain to fit for the drawer width----."  I dont understand what you're saying.  John McAlister

[Antiquity]

Kent,

In my opinion a 1/16" clearance per side is a sloppy fit.  I shoot for 1/32" max.  Shrinking and expanding will not effect the width of the drawer just the height.  If a drawer fits too tight it will create a vacuum effect when opened and the opposite when closed.  My trade school instructor told us, "it is easier to take a little off than to add a little on."

Sloppy fitting drawers always remind me of the mass produced furniture.

Dennis Bork
Antiquity Period Designs, Ltd.

[msiemsen]

Kent,
There are a few tricks to making piston fit drawers, one is to make the rear of the drawer slightly narrower than the front . Make the drawer front fairly tight 1/16 overall or 1/32 per side and use a "plane" not "plain" to final fit down to those dimensions.
Mike

[kenta]

Sorry, a typo: Should read "plane to fit."   

My specific instructions were to make sure the cabinet walls were parallel and square.  Then scribe the drawer opening on the drawer back.  Size the drawer back to the scribe line and then transfer markings to the more expensize drawer front. Then resize the top and bottom of the drawer back to allow for the drawer bottom and top clearance.  He recommend making the sides in a humid St Louis summer three plane shavings less then the opening width.  Cut your pins just a fraction long and when trim your pins flush with the drawer sides you  have a perfect drawer fit. 

To make a lipped drawer front, the instructor recommended appling the lipped face to a fitted drawer box.

I measured my last eight cases and all but two were 1/32 on a drawer side.  On two carcases the total overall clearance was 3/32.

Drawer height is interesting.  I have noticed that pieces made by Irion and North Bennett Street graduates have a rather proud amount of clearance on the top of inset drawers.  My shop with planes is connected to my home so fixing a drawer fit is easy.  I have also noticed that some make the drawer front slightly higher than the drawer sides. 

Thanks for the replies.  Kent

[Jeff L Headley]

Kent, I would hope you will find this site useful. Go for as tight a fit as you can get being August. Is this piece for yourself? If so you can adjust it as needed. I have found that it is a good idea to make your drawer back 1/16" narrower (a good and true period term) than the drawer front. What type of drawer are you making? Overlapping drawers (Chippendale) let your overlap take care of the difference. Federal drawers need to fit the case closer. I always glue up my drawers in the case to assure a better fit.  Glad to have you aboard!

[Jeff L Headley]

I will always glue up my doors in the case also. With wedges. Beware if someone says "Wedges, we don't need no wedges. We don't need no stinking wedges". (Maybe you had to be there)

[jacon4]

 Piston fit drawers? LOL, dang! I have never even heard the term nevermind seen it in period construction.

[John McAlister]

Nobody's answered my question yet.  Why make drawers piston fit?  Do any of you really strive for true piston fit drawers?   Unless challenged by an instructor!  John McA.

[JB]

I think making a piston fit drawer is supposed to be a sign of great craftsmanship. I think it more like "machismo" than good work.

I have two antique pieces of furniture with what I believe were originally "piston" fit drawers. The drawers on both of them stick horribly.  One piece is from the 1930's (French Art Deco), and the other from the Victoiran era (English). The drawers in both pieces are empty because I hate using them so much, and I don't like the idea of taking a plane to them - which they desperately need! I have not seen too many period pieces with very tight drawers, so I think they were not common.

I learned to make piston fit drawers from Rob Cosmon's DVD which you can rent from SmartFlix.

http://smartflix.com/store/video/2684/Drawer-Making-The-Professional-Approach

It's the best explanation I've seen on traditional drawer construction and fitting - period. I followed his method precisely, but then took a few extra plane shavings off the side to leave some room for the expansion that "never" happens. The drawers work amazingly well. It's a delight to open a wide drawer and be able to push it close with one finger by pressing on a corner. I think that's what you should really aim at. A little side to side slop is a good thing based on my experience with antique pieces.

JB

[msiemsen]

Well John,
I for one do not like my drawers to be too tight. I like a bit of room for expansion. This may just be "machismo" talking.

[msiemsen]

This link is to a Japanese woodworker making a small chest. You can see a good example of piston fit drawers at about 1:11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVZXYh_b-34&NR=1

[JB]

I didn't intend to offend anyone with my "machismo" comment. I apologize if I have. I was trying to point out that IMHO there are no practical reasons to make drawers with almost zero clearance.

:-)

[klkirkman]

Regarding the motivation or practicality of piston fit drawers, we need to keep in mind that , putting aside those on this list that make a living from making period furniture, most of the motivation for things discussed here is "pleasure"; pleasure in learning or teaching, pleasure in creating, pleasure in enjoying the products; and it may well be so for the professionals as well , I hope so.

I admit that making piston fit drawers is not high on my list of things I can't wait to get away from my computer and go in the shop and do, but I can imagine  that to do so probably is a challenge that would raise my level of skill and knowledge.

I am also pretty confident that the configuration of much period furniture is not suited to such drawers to the extent that they have a distinct aerodynamic behavior.

On the other hand, If someone wants to take that challenge, that is fine with me, and to some extent actually interesting and entertaining. Our differences make us special to each other.

Karl

[John McAlister]

I think I have my answer; that there is no practical reason to make drawers actually piston fit. Our differences do make us special to each other. Well spoken, Karl.  Thanks to all who have contributed.
 Mike, the Small cabinet made by the Japanese woodworker is beautiful and it's fun to see him close one drawer and see several others pop open from the pressure developed by the piston fit.  Obviously he needs to bore a few holes in the back to release the pressure! I ain't going to tell him! John McAlister