Drawer bearers

[Chuck Bender]

Mike,

you bring up a good point about the cultural make up of an area. The funny thing is, the Valley has a connection with Chester County. There were quite a number of craftsmen who moved from Chester County down into the Valley. Although that's the case, I have yet to see the same construction on a Chester County piece. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it yet.

I think Millcrek's photo illustrates Mike's point about "modern" furniture. Although it isn't as new as I think Mike was suggesting, it is certainly much newer than Jeff's piece. The dadoes in Jeff's first photo definitely appear to be produced with a plane while the I'm skeptical about the ones in Millcrek's being made using the same method. Jeff, are the drawer runners themselves original in your piece? It's hard to tell from the photo but there are either diagonal scrub plane marks along the edges or they are angular saw marks (possibly circular?).

[millcrek]

Chuck, I'm curious about what dates you would give to the two chests.

[Chuck Bender]

Millcrek,

Judging by the design of the two chests I'd put Jeff's at 1820 - 1860 and your's post 1870 possibly as late as the 1920's or so. On Jeff's there are clear hand tool marks on the interior. On your's I see no evidence, other than some corner blocks, of any hand tool work at all in your photo of the interior. I'd be interested to see the drawer joinery (corners and drawer bottom construction) which would help narrow down the date your chest was made. Stylistically, Jeff's is straight on Sheraton but, given it comes from the Valley, it could be later than a chest of the same design from a city center. Your chest is stylistically much later. Do you agree or am I mistaken?

[millcrek]

Chuck, I would have put Jeff's at 1810 to 1820, mine I'm not sure of. It has hand tool mark on all the surfaces or they are ruff cut. All the original nails are cut, but the screws appear to be machine made. The veneer is almost too thin to be hand cut. I took some better pictures today. What do you and others think.

[millcrek]

More pictures. All of these new pictures are of the chest upside down.

[dkeller_nc]

My description of Jeff's piece would be "Sheraton", while Millcreek's would be "Empire".  Stylistic attributions are certainly insufficient evidence to nail down a production period, but my guess would be 1815-1835 for Jeff's chest, while Millcreek's would be 1835 to 1870 or so.  I wouldn't think Millcreek's would be any later than 1870 at the very latest - I would expect milled backboards if it was later than 1870, as mechanical planers were in wide-spread use by then, and his chest looks too urban to have been made way in the backcountry where access to mechanized tools, or the wood available from mechanized tools, wasn't available.

[jacon4]

LOL, Ok, here i go, although dating furniture through pics is nearly impossible. They are both Sheraton, although Jeff's chest is more the traditional  and Millcrek's chest although Sheraton, has elements of the Empire style with those glove/jewelry/gallery drawers.

My best guess for both chests is first half 19th century. LET THE RESTORATION BEGIN! Some how we have managed to stray far from drawer bearers, lol. I would be interested to see what others say about these chests as they clearly are out of the colonial period and i hardly ever see that around here. Come on federal people, POST!

[sash plane]

Looking at a few papers I found on internet...

Do the screws have a point... then its after 1840 ish plus a few years to make its way into market place..

With the cut nails... a research paper written by Edwards...
Quote...
A cut nail made out of steel dates 1885 and later.  A cut nail that has opposite side (face and back) cutting burrs, is side pinched, and has a grain that runs across the shaft dates 1790-1848.  A nail that has cutting burrs on the same side, is crossed grained, and side pinched dates 1835-1848.  A cut nail that has in-line grain, is faced pinched, and cutting burrs on the same side dates 1848-1885.

This is info that may help...... I'm way to new to have an option...
This is very fascinating stuff though....

[millcrek]

Chuck, here are a couple of drawer pictures, note that the bottom pins are cut level with the bottom of the drawer. I think Jeff had mentioned this method.

[millcrek]

After working on this chest this afternoon, some more information. I was able to take apart one mortise and tenon joint, it was obvious that they were marked out with a cutting gauge and cut by hand with out use of a drill, only chisel marks in the sides and bottom of the mortise.  Only the drawer fronts are veneered, I was  able to lift a section of veneer,  the drawer fronts appear to be toothed, and there are saw marks on the back of the veneer. There is what appears to be both pine and poplar secondary wood, other than the veneer on the drawer fronts the primary wood, [the tops and sides of the case and other case parts], is either extremely bleached walnut or butternut.

[Jeff L Headley]

I knew this would spur some comments. This is what this forum should be about. The Sheraton chest is from Browntown, Virginia probably 18teens to mid 20's. My post #7 is from a Federal 1790's chest. Probably late 90's because of the thin tenon.
Mike, I have seen this bearer support method used on one Chippendale chest and another simple desk. As Chuck noted these pieces are hard to date because the Valley held onto different styles long past their traditional period until about 1800 then they supported traditional time frames.
Winchester and the Shenandoah valley was a true mixing bowl of many different regions of Europe. I think this method might have come up the Potomac from Baltimore or Annapolis or Georgetown. With that said Philadelphia was Winchesters main trading partner until tariffs came into effect by transporting things across the Potomac.

[Chuck Bender]

Excellent conversation. I love this type of stuff. Although I'm not too sure of the assessment of Millcrek's chest being Sheraton since it exhibits Empire elements. If it has Empire elements, it's Empire. Looking at the first photo he posted, there appeared to be no hand tool marks which lead me to believe it was even later. With the additional photos, it's clearly pre-industrial revolution which put us back to judging it's age base on it's newest feature.

Jeff, I've worked on some Baltimore pieces and have not seen this treatment for the drawer runners there either. I also worked on a couple of chests from Annapolis but can't recall how the runners joined the blades. I'll dig through my photos and see if I have anything that shows the interior from an angle where we can see the back of the blade. Definitely worth looking into. Thanks for the great brain teaser.

[msiemsen]

A great discussion. One thing we can know for certain is the chests weren't rodent proof! I was thinking 1820 for Jeff's chest and up to 70 years later on millcreeks. It is tough to call based on the construction info. Keep in mind that one of the reason's Bruno Hauptmann was convicted for the Lindberg kidnapping was the use of out of date square nails in the construction of the ladder used to access the upper window. Hauptmann, a carpenter, had stores of square nails in his garage. The Empire chest could have been built by some old hold out somewhere or made earlier at the height of fashion, the detective work is great fun.
Mike

[jacon4]

One thing we can know for certain is the chests weren't rodent proof!

LOL, dead funny, Hey, critter's have gotta eat to, right?

Although I'm not too sure of the assessment of Millcrek's chest being Sheraton since it exhibits Empire elements. If it has Empire elements, it's Empire.

I am not so sure of that, it's quite common for american furniture to contain 2 or more different design elements within the same piece. Empire furniture (1790- 1830) is characterized by curved lines and lots of carving which often has carved animal/beast feet. Empire or Classical furniture continued on in america after 1830 up until 1900 or so, it still had the curved lines but little or no carving and is often referred to as,  late classical, late empire or pillar & scroll.

The reason I am going with 1850 or before on Millcrek's chest is those back boards which were clearly planed by hand. I am going with Sheraton because of those "cookie" quarter columns & bracket feet.

Below is a NY lite/ work stand I purchased years ago, it has Sheraton legs but notice the curved (empire) drawer front. I would date this stand around 1840 or so.

[millcrek]

Last night I got out a book I hadn?t read in a while on ethnic American furniture. After about two hours of reading I have a new view of the chest in my possession. I think sometimes because of our concentration on American furniture with English heritage we forget that not all American furniture was made by cabinet makers trained in England. Because of lake Michigan, Wisconsin was one of the early inland sea ports. This made Wisconsin one of the main routes of westward migration. By 1836 there were at least two documented cabinet shops in Milwaukee. By 1846 there were several furniture factories in Walworth county. Enough history, back to the chest. I think it dates between 1830 and 1850, after 1830 because of the empire influence before 1850 because the rough sawn surfaces appear to be made by an up and down mill which was common after 1830 and mostly replaced with circular mills by 1850. I think it was made in the upper Midwest because of the use of butternut as a primary wood, it appears this was a popular choice with continentally trained cabinet makers. Many of the details of the chest are consistent with Alsatian American furniture which leads me to think it may have been built by a craftsman train in southeastern Germany. All of which brings us back to the original question. Is it possible that the method of connecting the drawer bearers is a German method.