Ammonia

[rococojo]

Ammonia.
Et al.
Today in our carving club meeting, (Wooddale Carvers) section of BWA, “ British Woodcarvers Association”, we met after a 2 month break  (Roof repair) John a retired mill worker, was carving next to me, so small talk was generating all day, (john was reading my 08-9 SAPFM journal, on staining by UV) this prompted me into telling him about the Ammonia Thread on a resent post, Ammonia being a 1900 product, John laughed,
And told me this? (He has evidence) in the 1830’s local mills used Ammonia to help with the scouring process, (but Ammonia was not avalabe till 1900) so in that day? They had a collection guy, that picked up urine from the village houses, each morning he would empty the pee into moveable contender, and take it back to the mill, to use in there process. That was in 1830, opens ones thoughts on old sayings? P--? off? The delivery had not arrived yet. (Today thats a strong word) but a normal word in 1830, Interesting.
 Please see attachment for old sayings, its worth a look.

                                                                           Joseph Hemingway
                                                                             Sharing the tricks of the trade.

[hellmutt]

Joseph,
I believe I was the one who raised the "Ammonia" issue................so you are telling me that all I had to do was pee on my project to get results?
(You should know that I am just kidding in case my English does not translate well into British).
I did finally finish the corner chair and will try to post a picture in the chair section.

Michael

[rococojo]

Michael,
NO I’m not instructing anyone to use his or her work as a toilet seat. Just trying to understand historical ways a little better, but understanding early life, they were not so different from present day makers? 300 years ago. Little bright sparks. Most average. All struggling to earn a crust, just as today.
Then this special woodworker accidentally got a positive result that lasted 250 years, and was renamed as a Dim Wit. For placing Mahogany timber in a stable, that turned a worm brown colour, which could be used under the new French polish.
But as we all now? Good Ideas come from intelligent people, so credit was placed with a scholar in the 1900’s.When the discovery was developed in the early 1800.

 
Please show your chair; I would love to see your handy work

                                                                           Joseph Hemingway

[frangallo]

I remember a dinner conversation that brought up the point that a sculptor of the renaissance  paid children of the neighborhood to pee on his copper and bronze sculptures to hasten the oxidation of the pieces. Uric acid has this effect, but to produce Ammonia the urine must be fermented. This practice can be dated back to the ancient Romans although a chemical method of producing pure Ammonia was not achieved until much later in 1774 by Joseph Priestly.

[rococojo]

This is very interesting? Will you show your evidence, what you claim is correct & true.
I would be most interested to see all hard evidence. Because until this subject was raised? Some? Were thinking it was a 1900's development, which you now claim, the Romans developed. ?

                                              Jo hemingway

[frangallo]

What you are reffering to, Joseph, is the Haber-Bosch process developed in 1909. What I refer to is the the first time gaseous ammonia was produced. Salts of ammonia appear in the works of Pliny (23-79 CE). Any thing else?

[frangallo]

Dear Joseph, I wasn't suggesting you were referring to anything, I was merely responding to your request to supply you with the evidence????that what I claimed was? true//! The Haber process, producing? ammonia? from the nitrogen in the air, was developed? by Fritz Haber and Carl Bosch in 1909. Germany employed the Haber process on a large scale during WW1 when their nitrogen supplies were cut off. However, prior to this compounds of ammonia (?) were discovered and used for God knows what. The first discovery of an ammonia compound (ammonia chloride) was made in ancient Libya near the Temple of Jupiter Amun and was called sal ammoniacaus because of it's location (near the temple). Dyers used a form of ammonia in the middle ages to alter the color of vegetable dyes. This form was produced by fermenting urine. In the 15th century Valintinus used an alkinated solution of sal ammoniac to obtain ammonia. These are well documented events but I appreciate your suggestion that I have an imagination vivid enough to make this stuff up. To Hot Air (et al)?/$!!!!!!!!!!!!!?Stop.

[frangallo]

Dear friend, just to clarify, you posted the following on May 9th:this prompted me into telling him about the Ammonia Thread on a resent post, Ammonia being a 1900 product, John laughed,
And told me this? (He has evidence) in the 1830’s local mills used Ammonia to help with the scouring process, (but Ammonia was not avalabe till 1900) so in that day? They had a collection guy, that picked up urine from the village houses, each m
This reference to to ammonia not being available until 1900 must refer to the Haber process. However I would argue that compounds of ammonia were being used far before that and the mining of ammonia chloride dates back to ancient Rome. Indeed Pliny writes about ammonia in the first century. The fluid ammonia we use today is indeed a product of 20th century chemistry.You say potato, I say potahto.

[rococojo]

Et Al, there seems to be a difference of opinions here on when ammonia fuming started? So I put to you an alternative fine example (Aspirin), in the 1950's my mother suffered headaches, and took aspirin to cure? Worked fine. Now 60 years on this same drug is the remedy for heart attacks, dose not mean aspirin is a new drug today. Not at all it was developed first for headaches, then by accident found its true use today. It’s the same with Ammonia.

                                    Joseph Hemingway

[frangallo]

riverrun past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius viccus of recirculation past Howth Castle and Environs. Sir Tristram, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passencore rearrived from North Amorica on this side the scraggy isthmus of Europe minor to wielderfight his olate war.

[rococojo]

Et Al, there seems to be a difference of opinions here on when ammonia fuming started? So I put to you an alternative fine example (Aspirin), in the 1950's my mother suffered headaches, and took aspirin to cure? Worked fine. Now 60 years on this same drug is the remedy for heart attacks, dose not mean aspirin is a new drug today. Not at all it was developed first for headaches, then by accident found its true use today. It’s the same with Ammonia.

                                    Joseph Hemingway

after reading Mark Arnolds answer to a problem I was getting? Ill try this post again

[rococojo]

Et Al, there seems to be a difference of opinions here on when ammonia fuming started? So I put to you an alternative fine example (Aspirin), in the 1950's my mother suffered headaches, and took aspirin to cure? Worked fine. Now 60 years on this same drug is the remedy for heart attacks, dose not mean aspirin is a new drug today. Not at all it was developed first for headaches, then by accident found its true use today. It’s the same with Ammonia.

                                    Joseph Hemingway

after reading Mark Arnolds answer to a problem I was getting? Ill try this post again, wonderful
when technology works? I have  just posted a chair made in 1862, with its trade lable 'F.B. Hobson & Son'. here is the history of Taylor & Hobson Ltd.

[rococojo]

Et Al, in answering this ammonia topic? I thought a view of untreated (newly sawn) Cuban mahogany might just educate,
Just as it was in the 1750s, linseed oil, and wax, was there answer? Until the 1800s by accident, Cuban mahogany timber was stored in a stable, and the ammonia darkened it.
 So French polish was developed for cleanness, and looks. See my post? F, B, Hobson & son chair 1862.  I claim this date, because F, B, Hobson & Sons. Started in 1851, (after following his London partner; A Taylor & Sons) in kirgate, Ordusfield. (Now Huddersfield) And moved to 26, New Street, when it first opened, (from being; Buxton road for years). Albert Taylor & Sons was on the opposite side of the road in competion till 1899 when they amalgamated into; Taylor & Hobson Ltd.

                                                        Joseph Hemingway